Crossed Up? - Page 2

Bad-mofo · 05-06-2008, 10:17 PM

The inside elbow should be dropped. This is how pros drag elbows... hint, hint. Also the whole body should be turned inside, not just the head. It should feel like you're looking to the side. There are many little things to get it perfect.

I understand I'm arguing with Palomar junkies here, but I'd still advise you against trying it in the canyons. First, you'll make a habit of messing up the line: look at how far Disco is missing the apex, second you'll make other bad habits, and third you can miss road debris or other important input keeping your mind occupied with one thing: your form. leave it to the track, parking lot, or another controlled environment with no gravel and oncoming traffic.

SPEED · 05-06-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-mofo

The inside elbow should be dropped. This is how pros drag elbows... hint, hint. Also the whole body should be turned inside, not just the head. It should feel like you're looking to the side. There are many little things to get it perfect.

I understand I'm arguing with Palomar junkies here, but I'd still advise you against trying it in the canyons. First, you'll make a habit of messing up the line: look at how far Disco is missing the apex, second you'll make other bad habits, and third you can miss road debris or other important input keeping your mind occupied with one thing: your form. leave it to the track, parking lot, or another controlled environment with no gravel and oncoming traffic.

You crack me up sometimes Alex. Don't forget from where you learned at the track. Dragging elbow is over rated if you ask me, not many of the pros actually do it, nor do they need to.

If people aren't going to make it to the track or a clean secure parking lot I'd rather have them working with someone on their skills up on Palomar on a weekday than not have them learn any skills at all.

Let me know when you wish to school me on the track......

http://www.sportbikeswest.com/Video/SPEED@Button2.WMV

Bad-mofo · 05-06-2008, 11:38 PM

I tried and tried and tried learning it in the canyons, and then just went to the Arrowhead (now Honda) Pond parking lot and did it. One thing about the canyons even if we completely ignore safety (ballzy riders do) is that most turns are 90 degree and the number of round 180-degree switchbacks is limited even on Palomar. Not to mention you may be stuck behind someone or something else spoils your attempt at perfect body position. There are always variables which the controlled environment (even a parking lot) has none. And honestly how many passes up and down the Tight Side you can get in a day riding responsibly because it's still a public road and cars use it and people live there? Compared to 200 circles you can do on the parking lot or 10-15 laps on the track per 20-min session.

ofcounsel · 05-07-2008, 06:13 AM

For illustration purposes, here's California Speedway's Turn 6. Two photos on the same corner.

Picture 1, Getting chest down low, outside arm just relaxed, eyes looking through turn, inside shoulder pointed to the ground, whole body hanging off slightly. Not perfect, but not crossed up.

Picture 2,This guy is "crossed up". Note how his head near the outside of the tank, almost as if he is trying to fight the bike. Also, look where his eyes are... he's probably gonna take that turn fairly slow.

http://caliphotography.exposuremanag...hed=1206980713

Bad-mofo · 05-07-2008, 08:53 AM

It'd also help to rotate the hand, so it's kinda "slipping" off the bar covering the bar-end with your palm. I'm not trying to "school" anyone. I was told all those things in Spencer's school.

NIKYFN · 05-07-2008, 10:20 PM

You know what? I think I'll just bring it back to basics for myself in the hills, cause I know that there's know way I'll make it to that level without riding over my head. The main thing I need to work on is being relaxed. That might be why it feels like I'm fighting the bike.After all, being relaxed is the first step to being smooth right? Ultimatly I need to get to the track, so I can eliminate most of the variables that freak me out in the canyons (oncoming traffic, debris, massive cliffs, etc.). As much as I'd love to, I doubt I can get my bike ready for this next trackday, but as God is my witness, I will make one soon. Hopefully I can hook up with one or more of y'all to point out all the other bad habits I have and work on be as smooth as possible. Thanks again, and please keep sharing with me your wisdom!

seesm · 05-11-2008, 12:35 AM

Just more track time is what you need or some just riding loose on the streets... Btw on dragging elbow... yeah I can do it but it does NOT mak eyou go faster... YOu have to hang pretty far off to do that... Most people I know that do it on a regular basis just do it so they can say they do... I did it and no big... burns up your elbows however...

ExarKunONe · 05-12-2008, 01:11 AM

Stay loose loose loose and look as far ahead as you can!

Disco · 05-12-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-mofo

I understand I'm arguing with Palomar junkies here, but I'd still advise you against trying it in the canyons. First, you'll make a habit of messing up the line: look at how far Disco is missing the apex, second you'll make other bad habits, and third you can miss road debris or other important input keeping your mind occupied with one thing: your form. leave it to the track, parking lot, or another controlled environment with no gravel and oncoming traffic.

Hmmm...for being such a proponent of the track you disappoint me by suggesting that I should be hitting the apex at Palomar; don't you know that can get you killed?! With cars,trucks and dumbass noobs coming at you in the opposite direction, being on the edge of the yellow line with my head on the other side of the road is the last place I want to be as I come around a blind turn! I'm in the middle of the road for a reason.

Even mentioning "the apex" at Palomar is squidly IMO.

Bad-mofo · 05-12-2008, 09:48 PM

LOL. That was my point exactly. There shouldn't be "apexes" on Palomar, neither perfecting "form" at the maximum lean angle (or close to maximum). BOTH belong to the track.

And as we started talking about squidly things even more than one Tight Side pass is squidly IMO as you're treating a public road as race circuit. Whatever. People do it anyways and damn proud of spending the entire weekend there. How it's different from Ruff Riders blocking the freeway... I dunno. Wearing full leathers so you can call yourself "responsible". Sorry for this sidenote

Experienced riders can get away with "intentionally" messed up lines. But someone who's just starting would just pick up bad habits, that's all. Also lines come first no matter what. I don't know how else to say it. The racing line is the safest one as it minimizes the lean angle (or the duration at the maximum lean angle). It's not like there's run-off on the outside... guardrail.

Do what you want. All I wanted to say a parking lot is a better teaching environment (used by several riding schools BTW) than any "noob rides" or "follow and repeat after me" kind of sessions in the canyons.

05-07-2008, 06:13 AM	#14
ofcounsel Squid Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brea, CA Bikes: Truiumph Daytona 675 (track) D675 (Street) Posts: 102 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 1 (24)	For illustration purposes, here's California Speedway's Turn 6. Two photos on the same corner. Picture 1, Getting chest down low, outside arm just relaxed, eyes looking through turn, inside shoulder pointed to the ground, whole body hanging off slightly. Not perfect, but not crossed up. Picture 2,This guy is "crossed up". Note how his head near the outside of the tank, almost as if he is trying to fight the bike. Also, look where his eyes are... he's probably gonna take that turn fairly slow. http://caliphotography.exposuremanag...hed=1206980713 __________________ WSMC #814 www.socaltriumph.com / www.cyclesector.com / www.panolinamerica.com / www.LeoVince.com / www.mothers.com Last edited by ofcounsel : 05-07-2008 at 06:16 AM.

05-11-2008, 12:35 AM	#17
seesm Canyon Carver Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Auburn, California Bikes: (2) 2007 R6's, lots of minibikes and a Bobcat ready to work... Posts: 801 iTrader: (1) Rep Power: 2 (13)	Just more track time is what you need or some just riding loose on the streets... Btw on dragging elbow... yeah I can do it but it does NOT mak eyou go faster... YOu have to hang pretty far off to do that... Most people I know that do it on a regular basis just do it so they can say they do... I did it and no big... burns up your elbows however... __________________ MotoElite.com / Snap Dragon Photos / Fast50s.com / Slide Motorsports / Advanced Metal Finishing & Powder Coating / greateryamaha.com / superbiketires.net / bellpowersport.com / leovinceusa.com / Gpr Stabilizer / Mike Wymer Perf. / Kevin Greene /Oury Grip / www.sportbikeswest.com / Catalyst Reaction Suspension / Elka Shocks / www.two2cool.com / Work Connection / motionpro.com / Tech Spec USA / SupermotoUSA / e-racings.com / axialvideo.com / bickleracing.com / gotmotoparts.com

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05-06-2008, 10:17 PM	#11
Bad-mofo Canyon Carver Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aliso Viejo, CA Bikes: 03 R6, 04 R1, 06 450SMR Age: 36 Posts: 531 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (16)	The inside elbow should be dropped. This is how pros drag elbows... hint, hint. Also the whole body should be turned inside, not just the head. It should feel like you're looking to the side. There are many little things to get it perfect. I understand I'm arguing with Palomar junkies here, but I'd still advise you against trying it in the canyons. First, you'll make a habit of messing up the line: look at how far Disco is missing the apex, second you'll make other bad habits, and third you can miss road debris or other important input keeping your mind occupied with one thing: your form. leave it to the track, parking lot, or another controlled environment with no gravel and oncoming traffic.

05-06-2008, 11:38 PM	#13
Bad-mofo Canyon Carver Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aliso Viejo, CA Bikes: 03 R6, 04 R1, 06 450SMR Age: 36 Posts: 531 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (16)	I tried and tried and tried learning it in the canyons, and then just went to the Arrowhead (now Honda) Pond parking lot and did it. One thing about the canyons even if we completely ignore safety (ballzy riders do) is that most turns are 90 degree and the number of round 180-degree switchbacks is limited even on Palomar. Not to mention you may be stuck behind someone or something else spoils your attempt at perfect body position. There are always variables which the controlled environment (even a parking lot) has none. And honestly how many passes up and down the Tight Side you can get in a day riding responsibly because it's still a public road and cars use it and people live there? Compared to 200 circles you can do on the parking lot or 10-15 laps on the track per 20-min session.

05-07-2008, 08:53 AM	#15
Bad-mofo Canyon Carver Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aliso Viejo, CA Bikes: 03 R6, 04 R1, 06 450SMR Age: 36 Posts: 531 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (16)	It'd also help to rotate the hand, so it's kinda "slipping" off the bar covering the bar-end with your palm. I'm not trying to "school" anyone. I was told all those things in Spencer's school.

05-07-2008, 10:20 PM	#16
NIKYFN Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PQ, SD, CA. Bikes: 1996 CBR F3 Age: 33 Posts: 48 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 0 (10)	You know what? I think I'll just bring it back to basics for myself in the hills, cause I know that there's know way I'll make it to that level without riding over my head. The main thing I need to work on is being relaxed. That might be why it feels like I'm fighting the bike.After all, being relaxed is the first step to being smooth right? Ultimatly I need to get to the track, so I can eliminate most of the variables that freak me out in the canyons (oncoming traffic, debris, massive cliffs, etc.). As much as I'd love to, I doubt I can get my bike ready for this next trackday, but as God is my witness, I will make one soon. Hopefully I can hook up with one or more of y'all to point out all the other bad habits I have and work on be as smooth as possible. Thanks again, and please keep sharing with me your wisdom!

05-12-2008, 01:11 AM	#18
ExarKunONe Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nipomo, CA Bikes: 01 BMW R1100S, 99 R6 Age: 23 Posts: 85 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 2 (10)	Stay loose loose loose and look as far ahead as you can!

05-12-2008, 09:48 PM	#20
Bad-mofo Canyon Carver Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aliso Viejo, CA Bikes: 03 R6, 04 R1, 06 450SMR Age: 36 Posts: 531 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (16)	LOL. That was my point exactly. There shouldn't be "apexes" on Palomar, neither perfecting "form" at the maximum lean angle (or close to maximum). BOTH belong to the track. And as we started talking about squidly things even more than one Tight Side pass is squidly IMO as you're treating a public road as race circuit. Whatever. People do it anyways and damn proud of spending the entire weekend there. How it's different from Ruff Riders blocking the freeway... I dunno. Wearing full leathers so you can call yourself "responsible". Sorry for this sidenote Experienced riders can get away with "intentionally" messed up lines. But someone who's just starting would just pick up bad habits, that's all. Also lines come first no matter what. I don't know how else to say it. The racing line is the safest one as it minimizes the lean angle (or the duration at the maximum lean angle). It's not like there's run-off on the outside... guardrail. Do what you want. All I wanted to say a parking lot is a better teaching environment (used by several riding schools BTW) than any "noob rides" or "follow and repeat after me" kind of sessions in the canyons.