Marine Tazered to Death by Cops

SolidForce · 03-30-2007, 12:04 PM

delawareonline ¦ The News Journal ¦ Witnesses: Police lacked cause to kill suspect

Cliff's Notes:
Guys does 2 tours in Iraq comes back and joins motorcycle club. The man is house sitting for friends, when 2 police cars pull up and tazer him and then shoot him. There were kids present as he was outside playing with them. This is only one side....interesting to see what the cops side says.

-SF

JakeR1 · 03-30-2007, 12:21 PM

Sounds like unnecessary use of force, but that is only one side of the story.

Ofnoan · 03-31-2007, 02:37 AM

I'll never understand why police here don't shoot legs before going right for the kill...

SolidForce · 03-31-2007, 12:05 PM

I got in a big fight with my G/F over that the other night. She is in Fed school right now and is learning the "shoot to kill" crap they teach. I personally do not believe in that, but of course many will see me as "a bleeding heart liberal" (I am (almost) a clinical psychlogist

) want to save and help people; not see them die.

-SF

Ofnoan · 04-01-2007, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidForce

I got in a big fight with my G/F over that the other night. She is in Fed school right now and is learning the "shoot to kill" crap they teach. I personally do not believe in that, but of course many will see me as "a bleeding heart liberal" (I am (almost) a clinical psychlogist

) want to save and help people; not see them die.

-SF

Nice to hear your opinion. I figured I was going to go down in flames for that. Roger Hedgecock (sp?) made an excellent observation the other day: he said that we should never construe our system as a criminal justice system. Rather, it is a legal system. So taking this one step further, protocols are valued over humanity. Very square if you ask me.

Highdiver · 04-05-2007, 07:40 PM

I didn't read the article but let me guess, the cops showed up and the marine copped an attitude (its a marine what do you expect), got tazered and faught back (again its a marine its what he's traind to do on instinct its why they're so good at what they do) and the popo shot him.

It is tragic but is sounds like they started with less then leathal force.

I'm not bashing him or any other marine, I have nothing but respect for what those arrogent bastards choose to do for a living (I almost joined myself), but sometime these things can happen.

My condolences go out to freinds and family, and also to the officers that have to live with the fact that they killed a soldier for the rest of their life.

Gwyneth · 04-05-2007, 09:51 PM

There's actually a Supreme Court ruling that you cannot use deadly force unless the suspect is an immediate threat to the officer or to members of the community. You cannot just shoot a suspect for resisting arrest or fleeing. The State of Tennessee actually had a law that allowed officers to use deadly force to stop fleeing suspects even if they are unarmed and not a threat. An officer responding to a burglary call chased a suspect out of a house. The suspect was running away and the officer announced himself and told the suspect to stop. The suspect didn't listen and tried to jump a fence. The officer shot the suspect in the head. The suspect ended up being a 17 year old kid with $12 cash and some items in his pockets. The Tennessee Courts upheld that it was a valid shooting based upon the Tennessee law. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned and ruled that the shooting was a violation of the 4th Amendment. I can't remember the name of the case off the top of my head at the moment, but the officers in the marine shooting could be in some deep doo-doo if they can't prove that the marine was an immediate threat to them or to a member of society. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome of this is.

FYI~ The officers who shot the groom in NY are now facing criminal charges.

Ofnoan · 04-05-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwyneth

There's actually a Supreme Court ruling that you cannot use deadly force unless the suspect is an immediate threat to the officer or to members of the community. You cannot just shoot a suspect for resisting arrest or fleeing. The State of Tennessee actually had a law that allowed officers to use deadly force to stop fleeing suspects even if they are unarmed and not a threat. An officer responding to a burglary call chased a suspect out of a house. The suspect was running away and the officer announced himself and told the suspect to stop. The suspect didn't listen and tried to jump a fence. The officer shot the suspect in the head. The suspect ended up being a 17 year old kid with $12 cash and some items in his pockets. The Tennessee Courts upheld that it was a valid shooting based upon the Tennessee law. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned and ruled that the shooting was a violation of the 4th Amendment. I can't remember the name of the case off the top of my head at the moment, but the officers in the marine shooting could be in some deep doo-doo if they can't prove that the marine was an immediate threat to them or to a member of society. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome of this is.

FYI~ The officers who shot the groom in NY are now facing criminal charges.

Very interesting. I don't know how they train here, but I suspect that officers should spend more time focusing on martial arts and participate in more high intensity simulation training drills where they use non-lethal force (tazers, shooting to the legs, etc).

BR996 · 04-05-2007, 10:59 PM

Member of the Pagans...a person of interest in a drug investigation...

What I'm wondering is, not that the shooting is justified (don't know all the facts), if they tazered him once...why didn't he just show them his hands? According to the witness, after his second introduction to the tazer, he still wasn't doing what they said...he sat up and got tazered again?? It says the woman said he was "trying" to show his hands...how hard is it...just put them somewhere away from your body...usually up

Be interesting to see the outcome in both criminal and civil court.

Ofnoan · 04-05-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR996

Member of the Pagans...a person of interest in a drug investigation...

What I'm wondering is, not that the shooting is justified (don't know all the facts), if they tazered him once...why didn't he just show them his hands? According to the witness, after his second introduction to the tazer, he still wasn't doing what they said...he sat up and got tazered again?? It says the woman said he was "trying" to show his hands...how hard is it...just put them somewhere away from your body...usually up

Be interesting to see the outcome in both criminal and civil court.

"Sir, stop resisting! Stop resisting!"

03-30-2007, 12:04 PM	#1
SolidForce Know It All Join Date: May 2005 Location: Santa Clarita Age: 26 Posts: 402 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (32)	Marine Tazered to Death by Cops delawareonline ¦ The News Journal ¦ Witnesses: Police lacked cause to kill suspect Cliff's Notes: Guys does 2 tours in Iraq comes back and joins motorcycle club. The man is house sitting for friends, when 2 police cars pull up and tazer him and then shoot him. There were kids present as he was outside playing with them. This is only one side....interesting to see what the cops side says. -SF __________________ *Yaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!*

03-30-2007, 12:21 PM	#2
JakeR1 Club Racer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SD Bikes: '99 R1 "The Disintegrator" '07 R1, '04 R6 "Slow" Age: 25 Posts: 2,517 iTrader: (1) Rep Power: 5 (62)	Sounds like unnecessary use of force, but that is only one side of the story. __________________ Just call me Matt... www.msf-usa.org

03-31-2007, 12:05 PM	#4
SolidForce Know It All Join Date: May 2005 Location: Santa Clarita Age: 26 Posts: 402 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (32)	I got in a big fight with my G/F over that the other night. She is in Fed school right now and is learning the "shoot to kill" crap they teach. I personally do not believe in that, but of course many will see me as "a bleeding heart liberal" (I am (almost) a clinical psychlogist ) want to save and help people; not see them die. -SF __________________ *Yaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!*

04-05-2007, 10:59 PM	#9
BR996 Know It All Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: With my 82 yr old hottie Bikes: 03 9R, 01 TLS, 98 TLS...what's left of it! Posts: 447 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 4 (28)	Member of the Pagans...a person of interest in a drug investigation... What I'm wondering is, not that the shooting is justified (don't know all the facts), if they tazered him once...why didn't he just show them his hands? According to the witness, after his second introduction to the tazer, he still wasn't doing what they said...he sat up and got tazered again?? It says the woman said he was "trying" to show his hands...how hard is it...just put them somewhere away from your body...usually up Be interesting to see the outcome in both criminal and civil court. __________________ www.tlzone.net www.tlplanet.com

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03-31-2007, 02:37 AM	#3
Ofnoan Squid Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego Bikes: '02 Gix 750. Formerly: RC51 SP1, '01 Gix 750, '97 Gix 600, Jawa 350 2-stroke... Age: 39 Posts: 167 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 2 (18)	I'll never understand why police here don't shoot legs before going right for the kill...

04-05-2007, 07:40 PM	#6
Highdiver Newbie Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: HELL Bikes: one of them ninjabikes Age: 28 Posts: 42 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 0 (10)	I didn't read the article but let me guess, the cops showed up and the marine copped an attitude (its a marine what do you expect), got tazered and faught back (again its a marine its what he's traind to do on instinct its why they're so good at what they do) and the popo shot him. It is tragic but is sounds like they started with less then leathal force. I'm not bashing him or any other marine, I have nothing but respect for what those arrogent bastards choose to do for a living (I almost joined myself), but sometime these things can happen. My condolences go out to freinds and family, and also to the officers that have to live with the fact that they killed a soldier for the rest of their life.

04-05-2007, 09:51 PM	#7
Gwyneth Club Racer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North County San Diego Bikes: 05 Kawasaki ZZR600 Age: 35 Posts: 2,005 iTrader: (0) Rep Power: 6 (56)	There's actually a Supreme Court ruling that you cannot use deadly force unless the suspect is an immediate threat to the officer or to members of the community. You cannot just shoot a suspect for resisting arrest or fleeing. The State of Tennessee actually had a law that allowed officers to use deadly force to stop fleeing suspects even if they are unarmed and not a threat. An officer responding to a burglary call chased a suspect out of a house. The suspect was running away and the officer announced himself and told the suspect to stop. The suspect didn't listen and tried to jump a fence. The officer shot the suspect in the head. The suspect ended up being a 17 year old kid with $12 cash and some items in his pockets. The Tennessee Courts upheld that it was a valid shooting based upon the Tennessee law. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned and ruled that the shooting was a violation of the 4th Amendment. I can't remember the name of the case off the top of my head at the moment, but the officers in the marine shooting could be in some deep doo-doo if they can't prove that the marine was an immediate threat to them or to a member of society. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome of this is. FYI~ The officers who shot the groom in NY are now facing criminal charges.

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